When launching your brand you've gotta be crafty. He shared the important reminder - build the audience first, then have the product. When I'm working with young entrepreneurs at Fownders, this is a common mistake I help people work through. So many entrepreneurs are putting all their time and effort into creating a product, with no audience to see it. You've got to stay crafty. Partner with an influencer, do a PR release, create a viral piece of content.
Establish the audience first, then share the product. From my interview with Drama I was reminded of the importance of the fundamentals that helped me on my journey over the past 15 years as being an entrepreneur. In both building my brand, and building the brands of my companies, there are fundamentals that will help you cut your learning curve. With so many amazing ventures and so much success, Pfaff is definitely someone worth looking into. So what's the deal with this remarkably successful CEO?
Chris "Drama" Pfaff grew up in Akron, Ohio. After he graduated from high school, he moved out to Los Angeles.
Initially, Pfaff made his way out to L. While, at one point in his life, he had hoped to be a professional skateboarder, a skateboarding accident that landed him in a four-day coma made him reconsider the profession. But the point was, he grew up three hours away. He moved out here when I was three years old. So we didn't really know him. We just knew we had this cool skateboarder cousin that lived in LA. After I moved here, we ended up becoming super close and he ended up becoming like a big brother to me.
And so then I saw everything he was doing and what was possible in that. This was before MTV. Then we start filming an MTV show. I see what's possible there. I started trying to get in on that, and so then like I said, I watched Big Black create a clothing line.
I watched our friend create the brand Rogue Status with all the guns all over us. Chris Pfaff: [] The bomb. So that was the one that really, I would say more than anything inspired me to start a brand was that one, because I watched Johan, the founder, make it -- he got Rob on board. Rob started wearing it on TV. It took off. Everyone loved it. He had this really cool culture around his brand down in Venice where they had a store and everyone would gather there. And it was just so cool. It was like a little gang.
It was like the Rogue Status guys. And that really affected me and I spent a lot of time with him and whatever.
So anyway, the point is I keep seeing these things that are possible and then I keep trying to find my way in and do it and blah, blah, blah. And that's kind of how it grew. We'll be right back after this. Jordan Harbinger: [] This episode is sponsored in part by Sport Clips.
Now when the sponsor came across my desk, I was a little skeptical. I think we've all been to a chain barber shop and had a mediocre at best experience, but a with Sport Clips I thought this is kind of funny. I whirl in there for the haircut to try it out because I want to try everything that I recommend to you all, and the place is packed, not with people waiting, but with people who had already gotten a haircut watching the game on these enormous TVs that they have.
They got a refrigerators, you can grab a drink, and the haircut was top notch. Of course, for guys who don't like to talk to their stylist, guys and gals for that matter, this is a great place because you got the TV kind of distracting you.
I can't shut up. So I had a great conversation with Kate and she was really good, really experienced. And what I thought was really cool about Sport Clips was they actually keep a file on you. So if you get your hair cut in Chicago and then you happen to be in LA and you're doing something, the whole -- they've got your info there so you don't have to remember what it is that you get, and it's all standardized.
And I thought that was really, really cool. So give them a shot. There's over locations nationwide. You choose the cut and they cut the weight. Now being able to construct a strong persuasive argument can help all of us, which is why I highly recommend checking out The Great Courses Plus, they've got a course on argumentation, the study of effective reasoning and I went to law school so we talked a lot about what arguing is.
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That's where you get your free trial, thegreatcoursesplus. Jason DeFillippo: [] Don't forget we have a worksheet for today's episode so you can make sure you solidify your understanding of the key takeaways from Chris Pfaff.
That link is in the show notes at jordanharbinger. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. To learn more about our sponsors and get links to all the great discounts you just heard, visit jordanharbinger. If you'd like some tips on how to subscribe to the show just to go to jordanharbinger. Jordan Harbinger: [] I remember going to the Rogue Status store and they were out of everything because they couldn't make it fast enough.
Jordan Harbinger: [] At one point anyway to satisfy the demand, and that must have -- it's interesting to see how being around -- I advocate for this a lot. You only go as high as your five closest friends.
He had a different role with Rob's company, Rob Dyrdek, the pro skateboard. Jordan Harbinger: [] But he's not -- he wasn't a genius and Big Black, right? If he can start a clothing line. I can start a clothing line. Chris Pfaff: [] And I'll tell you this, I have never met and spoke to someone that I truly just thought this is a genius and this is completely out of my realm. Everyone -- and that may sound airy.
Chris Pfaff: [] And I've never sat with anyone. I've never -- I've also never sat with like maybe Kanye West is a genius.
I don't know. Jordan Harbinger: [] Yeah, yeah. But when you're thinking of like a brand or somebody leverages publicity to create an opportunity that that's the oldest game in town in LA. Chris Pfaff: [] Absolutely.
Nobody's like breaking the mold here. This is pretty cool. Girls recognize me when I go out at night. This is as good as it gets. Chris Pfaff: [] So two things. For me, I've learned at 31 years old that what I'm really addicted to more than anything isn't like clothing, isn't fashion, isn't money. It's just growth.
It's just having something to attack in the morning and feeling like I did a decent job of doing it at night, and just constantly growing and evolving. And I think that that's what has led me through all of these different worlds and all these different things, and also on much more of like ground level being a reality star or a celebrity or whatever you want to call was just whack to me.
It was always lame to me. It was never like, it was always a way to A, we were having an incredible time and having fun.
It was amazing. But it was -- what I'm saying is it was a way to launch other things and it was a way to launch businesses and to do all these different things.
It was never -- there was never a point with anyone, any one of us that was -- well this is great because I'm going to be able to do so many more club appearances now. Chris Pfaff: [ ] Yeah. Never the goal and I don't know why. Maybe that's our skater culture and maybe that's whatever it is, but the idea of walking around with -- on your business card having reality TV star was about the lamest thing in the world.
I can imagine that. They're just like, I want to see her get punched in the face. That is going to be the new YouTube, that's like the poles and the boxing each other now, and like YouTube is going to be the new -- it is the new reality TV. But the next thing is going to be like YouTube rehab. Your favorite YouTube stars are on crack. Young and Reckless though as a brand is everywhere.
Now, it's everywhere. Is it surreal to walk through the mall and see your stuff hanging on a rack? Chris Pfaff: [] Yeah, it is. Like it's still when I go to especially like another state and see someone wearing it or something pops up.
It just popped up this morning, Karrueche that celebrity chick, was wearing all Young and Reckless Active Wear to the gym and posting about it and that's still cool to me. Chris Pfaff: [] Because it's still in like tabloids and I personally don't ever want to be in tabloids, but I want my clothing to be -- when I see it I get so excited.
And that feeling, I mean sure, you get a little numb to like the little stuff just being honest. But like I think the feeling of someone wearing your stuff that you are so removed from so far away is like, it's one of the best feelings ever. Jordan Harbinger: [] It's like somebody putting your art up and you see it in their house when you walk in, yeah. Or like someone, I'm sure for you, like someone coming up to you and saying, I loved this moment from this podcast and really changed my life.
Chris Pfaff: [] That's the best feeling ever. It's like someone who has no obligation to do so is spending their time or money to support this thing you created in your brain.
Like that's the best feeling ever. I can't remember what it is. It's an eight something. Jordan Harbinger: [] I think it's like eight, I think it was eight hours. It's like four hours each way to work.
He was to walk there. He lives in India. That's a lot of my voice in your head every single day. Chris Pfaff: [] It's the best feeling ever. Jordan Harbinger: [] So her mom told you to look at your clothes. Like don't get me wrong. That's great.
But it's like somebody who has no obligation, they chose to give you that time or money. It's cool. But it was the plan all along for you, right? Jordan Harbinger: [] This wasn't a surprise. It is worked out. It was the plan. Like that's what you're game planning for, and then at the same time when it actually starts to work and connect and like I said, it gets a life of its own and these weird things started happening. It's just cool.
It was so cool. So yes, I planned for it, but at the same time it's amazing. Chris Pfaff: [] I mean there's a trillion different ways it could not work. Jordan Harbinger: [] Right.
The whole place is like, and you can tell this as a clothing company in the office where we're in if you're listening only because there's clothing everywhere. Jordan Harbinger: [] And it's something about that, I don't know what it is, but you know when you go in like an art studio, there's paint everywhere, there's canvas everywhere, there's metal everywhere. When somebody's making something, there's wires everywhere, there's wood everywhere, there's metal everywhere.
But when you go to like somebody who's not really doing much, they're offices clean. Jordan Harbinger: [] They've got like a couple shirts and a frame that like, that's our product right there. They got some bobbleheads on a shelf through. Jordan Harbinger: [] This place you can tell sells a lot of clothes because you're like, it's all but tripping over boxes full of new stuff. Chris Pfaff: [] I'm going to be honest, it drives me nuts.
I'm glad you put it that way because it made me feel a little bit better about the mess. But like I have it on my to do list, like to completely re-vamp the office, paint and put up new logos and whatever.
And I keep asking everyone like, isn't there just a side room somewhere where we can put all of these things and there just isn't. It sucks, man. I just want -- I want the cool pristine office. Jordan Harbinger: [] But I don't know, man. There's something about like, it's that energy of being in a place that's doing the work.
It's like a factory where the machines are running. Chris Pfaff: [] You're right, yeah. There's a lot of clothing being made in here. I can promise you that. You do draw the line well between being a celebrity that sells products and an entrepreneur though. And that was one thing I wanted to highlight because there are a lot of reality people or celebrities in general that sell products, but you decided to actively ditch that and become the business owner.
Not just tell people about how you do it. Chris Pfaff: [] Yeah, it's true. And I bailed on being a celebrity because there is no -- like I said, there was -- I have never considered myself a celebrity. Calling myself a celebrity sounds insane, right? Chris Pfaff: [] And I've never considered myself that way. I've never done anything to try to grow that path in my life.
It just was never cool to me, and the thing that's cool to me is this. I think YouTubers and influencers are great. I think it's great what they're doing. I think that the whole thing is awesome, but I get to pay lots of influencers to wear my product, not just be that one influencer hoping for the next little check to get by.
And I think that it's easy the same way it was with reality stars and celebrities from you growing up. They have so many followers. They get so many likes. People love them. They must be rich. And it's just not as good of a life as it really see. Jordan Harbinger: [] But I get the allure because it is hard to remember that the person who rented a house, rented a car, and is doing a seminar on how to teach you to do the same thing.
There are a lot of people I know that literally they live with five other dudes filming YouTube videos every day, editing all day. And like I just -- that life never was attractive to me. And before I even knew the reality though. Jordan Harbinger: [] Oh, I was going to say that you saw the reality of it. Chris Pfaff: [] I just think like the idea of your main focus being yourself and like how well known can I get, didn't seem like a cool thing to me. I wanted to have a business.
I wanted to have something legit. I wanted a product. I don't want that to be my business plan for the week. That's funny. I never even thought about that. That must be what goes through people's minds. It'll be over in a month. Chris Pfaff: [] I mean that happens all day long. They'll plan like to just go get photographed at a dinner together because like, there's a movie coming out or whatever.
Jordan Harbinger: [] Oh, that makes sense? Is there a romance between these two co-stars? Chris Pfaff: [] That's planned all day long. And what you're seeing now is like these little influencers are like so smart that they're doing similar things. Jordan Harbinger: [] And I think a lot of people that listen to these types of shows are looking for business tips but they're kind of secretly hoping to apply them in that realm.
And I think it's a fair warning for people to give them a reality check when it comes to this. Chris Pfaff: [] Yes. And I want to be clear too, to all the listeners, because there probably are a lot of people like that. It's like I do think that in , you absolutely have to have a connection with your customer.
And you should be documenting and showing building your business and the struggles that it takes and what you learned today and what you didn't -- what you failed at today.
And I do think that when you finally come to launch a product, having a built in audience that really believes in you and what you're doing is more important than ever. But it's just like don't front, you can't build this audience as a front because it's going to come out.
The truth is going to come out, it's going to screw you over. You're going to end up having to decide between, well, do I spend all my time being an influencer or being an entrepreneur? And you're never going to win either of those. So it's like there is a fine line. I do think you should document and you should have a good YouTube page or Instagram page or a really cool podcast or whatever it is, but just not famous for the sake of famous.
Jordan Harbinger: [] I heard you text your mom every morning. Is that's true? Chris Pfaff: [] I do that because -- so I went through like, well it's kind of an ongoing thing, but starting about two years ago, I really started focusing a lot on like myself and like how to do better. I felt like it's a really long story that I'm making sure. But I felt like I kind of crashed, I felt I had used up all the tools, personal tools that I had to stay sane in this crazy world.
I'm trying to do what I'm doing and I just felt depleted and over everything and depressed and whatever. And so I really kind of felt like I started from scratch and built up routines and read a bunch of books on optimization and really habit formation and all these different things. And one of the biggest things that I did was created a daily routine that I do every day no matter what. And the goal of that routine is so that if I get my butt kicked at work or I get the worst news ever, whatever, still all of these things were accomplished and still I don't have that bad of a day.
I don't feel like that much of a loser. And it allows me the next day to get up with a little bit more energy and keep going because you at least accomplished something. So one of those things on the list was texting my mom and that came from like I don't know, I just don't talk to my mom enough.
Jordan Harbinger: [] Yeah, sure. Chris Pfaff: [] I have a great relationship. I have a great relationship with her. I love her to death. But I would talk to her once every four, five, six days. And she would never say anything, she just lets me do whatever. So I just realized, hey, why not put that on my to do list.
The same as like drink enough water, just make sure you text your mom. It's so easy to do, but we need those reminders.
Hope you have a great day. What's going on? Anything out of the ordinary? Jordan Harbinger: [] I love the idea. Thanks honey. To me there was like this, I felt better that I had done it. It was off my plate. Chris Pfaff: [] No.
Because like you did, like one of my things was I just want to be a good son. So by texting my mom every day, it's selfish. I feel like a good son. And so whether she decides to respond to me or it doesn't respond for a week, I can sleep well knowing that I'm a good son.
We'll be right back. Jordan Harbinger: [] This episode is also sponsored by DesignCrowd. Crowdsourcing is how people get stuff done in the 21st century. And thanks to DesignCrowd, you can focus on running your business while handing over the reigns for your company's logo, web design, t-shirt, you name it, to a pool of over , professional designers from around the world. DesignCrowd crowdsources custom work based on your specifications and you pick the design you like best. Really is that simple.
So here's the deets. Visit designcrowd. DesignCrowd invites over , designers from Sydney to San Francisco to responded within hours. Your first designs will start rolling in and over the course of three to 10 days, a typical project, we'll receive 60 to a or even more different design pieces from designers around the world. You pick the one you like, you approve payment, and in the unlikely event that you don't like any of the submitted designs, DesignCrowd offers and money back guarantee.
Jason DeFillippo: [] Check out designcrowd. Jordan Harbinger: [] By the way, everybody, I'm looking for some creative spaces in which to record the show. I do hit other big cities as well. San Francisco especially. So if you are the manager of a hotel and you've got an art space that's open during the day, or if you have a cool bar that has a private room that's actually really quiet during the daytime or in the early evening, something like that.
This is great. We've gotten a lot of emails from people who have really nice homes, managed bars and other venues that are mostly empty during the day except for a couple of staff, et cetera. This is really great. We're going to be doing a lot of video this coming year and so I do the interviews in person and if I don't have to rent a sound studio but can have a kind of cool unique space that's not so sterile, it really is great.
So if you have something like that, shoot me an email jordan jordanharbinger. These are super helpful. We'd love to hang out with you there as well. If it's your spot and take you out to lunch or something like that as well. You can meet the guests of the show of course. And Jen and I will be there. So if you have a great space and it's quiet enough during the day while we're there, jordan jordanharbinger. Jason DeFillippo: [] Thanks for listening and supporting the show.
You're support of our advertisers is what keeps us on the air. And don't forget we have worksheets for today's episode. And now for the conclusion of our interview with Chris Pfaff. Jordan Harbinger: [] All right, so I wanted to dive in a little bit on some practical advice as well because there's a lot of younger people who want to get their foot in the door of like any industry at all.
Chris Pfaff: [] But that was opposite. He offered me the job, then the show came by. Chris Pfaff: [] Yes, because what's funny is I was just -- so here's what happened, think about it this way. I'm his assistant genuinely, legitimately like sweeping his floors and doing his laundry.
Now all of a sudden the TV show gets picked up, which I wasn't even supposed to be a part of. Jordan Harbinger: [] Back when it was real reality TV and they weren't scripting everything. And so for me it was like I would come into a scene, get -- made fun of -- it sounds so terrible, but made fun of, joke around, ha, ha, ha. We need you. Jordan Harbinger: [] I think a lot of young people are like allergic to doing the real work.
You know, they don't want to -- they want to be a 19 year old Instagram influencer like we just mentioned. But nobody wants to throw the towels in the laundry, nobody wants to mop up the coffee that somebody threw at somebody else on the set. Or in your case rub, was it icy hot on Big Blacks like bare ass. Chris Pfaff: [] I don't mind. I think that's almost like the number one thing that sends people on the wrong path. It's like you cannot take yourself too serious ever. I still do the equivalent of rubbing Icy Hot on Big Blacks butt, today with my life now.
And you can't -- and everyone that I have ever met that is at least like, I want to be, entrepreneurs or CEOs or whatever, do that. You can't ever take yourself too serious. You can never be too cool to take the trash out.
You can never be too cool to stay there last. You can never -- you just can't. The moment you do, it's over. The only people who can do that are celebrities. And if you want to sit and bet your whole life on becoming a celebrity, you might as well play the lottery. It's just not a good -- there is no path to that. And so I think for any young person out there who really trying to figure it out, you really have to drop all ego and taking yourself too serious and all those things and just get in there, do what needs to be done and learn.
Even if the celebrity thing didn't appeal to you, you could have easily have done, I mean you could've just worked at MTV or there was a million paths that you could have theoretically followed. And I wonder what you think about the advice you and I were kind of riffing on like bad entrepreneur, bad life advice before we started filming.
Get after it. You can do whatever you want. Jordan Harbinger: [] The quotes where you're standing on a beach and there's a quote superimpose on you, an Instagram quote. Chris Pfaff: [] Like we can all dream. I don't -- because what I think that it encourages is you to come up with this big grand thing of what you're going to be one day with no plan of how to get there or what that really means, and then you're stuck.
Like you don't know what to do tomorrow and you just wonder why slowly your dream is getting away from you and you're having to get a job and now your spirit is crushed, and then you have to do this thing and now life starts hitting you really hard and you're like, where the hell did my dream?
I think that like, I'm really big on setting goals and whether that be like getting super clear on what you really want, financially, be honest, be realistic. What do you need financially to truly make yourself happy? Don't just say rich with five Ferrari's. That's not a goal, right? Chris Pfaff: [] And then breaking down, how do you go about that? What are opportunities available to you now to get you one step closer to that?
And I've noticed in life that every time, you may not know the whole plan, you may not know how to get all the way up the mountain, but you know what the next step is. You always know what the next step is and when you take that next step, five more things open up and then you take that next step and then there's five more. And it's almost like this path that reveals itself as you grow.
And I just think it's so important to think about it that way and to focus on taking the next step and not like looking up at this Mount Everest sand. Jordan Harbinger: [] I think, I think that's really useful because there's no way he could have designed this path, which is what prompted that question. You didn't know that was going to happen. You didn't know that that was going to evolve into the clothing line, but you had your eyes open for that opportunity.
You didn't know that you were going to be able to jump into a podcast and someone was going to start Instagram and that they was going to take off with the MTV generation of which you were then front and center on the new show, fantasy factory, and everything else.
And then your brand was going to be a hit. Like you can't plan that. Jordan Harbinger: [] One foot in front of the other [indiscernible] []. It came from getting your ass kicked multiple times and thinking it's all over and thinking this sucks and there's no point in any of this. And then he's always, what is the next step?
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